Curse

Liquidus · May 16, 2006, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Thanks for looking. This is the e-denial mesmer I'm currently using for my balanced team arena build. The others chars are a hammer warrior, blinding el/mo, and boon prot monk. This mesmer's intended purpose is to slow down the opposing monk's healing so that the warrior can kill the enemy monk or mesmer.

Mesmers seem to be the least understood of all classes. I don't see a lot of agreement on skill sets unlike the monk where there are several required skills. In team arena, the only anti-caster mesmer builds I know of are the e-denial mesmer and migraine mesmer. I havn't tried the migraine mesmer, how does that fare in TA? Is there anything else I should know about?

I'm looking for any suggestions to improve my current build. Please explain the reasoning behind your opinions.

Mesmer/Monk

12+1+1= 14 Domination
10 Inspiration
9 Fast Casting

Diversion (Took out Mind Wrack for this)
Energy Burn
Energy Surge
Shame
Blackout (Took out shatter for this)
Drain Enchantment
Inspired Hex
Res Sig

Of the 4 chars in my team build, I'm least sure about this one. Originally, I didn't feel like mind wrack was doing enough to stay in my set. It almost never did the damage. The only other e-denial skill used is signet of weariness, which I havn't tried, but the recharge time seems a bit long. I included diversion and blackout because they seem like useful skills, although I'm still trying to get the hang of when to use them.

I'm also thinking about taking out inspired for remove hex, which is be a help in hex removal, but I'm wondering if I'll have energy problems. As of right now, my energy is pretty tight when I'm in battle. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Zui · May 16, 2006, 07:32 AM // 07:32

I'd keep mind wrack in there personaly, it may not deal damage often, but when it does deal damage you know your opponent is out of energy, or hiding energy. So you stop denying until they swap to another weapon set(watch for swap) or wait a bit for their energy to regen.

For the Blackout versus Shatter, both have their place. I'd leave the blackout, as totaly shutting down any charactar(especialy their monk) at critical points can be very useful. Although Shatter is nice since you can remove boon twice in a row, or remove boon then ether prodigy(if they're running a flashbot). It can also be quite useful of stripping a Warrior of their adrenaline, or keeping their warrior-hate charactar from doing whatever he's doing for a few seconds.

As for Inspired Hex, I'd keep that on your bar, it's always a wise idea to have an off-monk hex removal, in addition to the energy-managment aspect. Plus if you coordinate with your monk, you can pull domination magic hexes like Shame and Backfire off your monk, then use them on the opposing monk(provided you have the energy).

As for a Migrane mesmer in TA, I'd reccomend against it. Just about every team in TA currently runs a boon-prot, and the only two spells you'll be able to delay sufficiently are their elite energy managment(Edrain, Mantra of Recall), or their hex removal(not CoP). The reason people run Migrane mesmers in HA is because people there tend towards healing spells, all of which have a longer cast time than the spells a boon-prot would use(save infuse health). Not to mention the lack of hex removal most HA teams have, thus making Migrane devestating.

Van Goghs Ear · May 18, 2006, 01:21 AM // 01:21

IMO the bar seems a bit confused. It's like half shutdown, half edenial which makes an overall weak bar that can't really be totally effective at doing either or, it can just do both sort of ok. Also with so many MoR boon prots floating around, 2 enchantment removals is almost a must, and aside from the damage it can do, mindwrack works as an amazingly cheap and quick cool down cover hex. If you know a prot has 1 enchant on, you can throw a hex on like shame, cover it with wrack and he wont be able to cop the shame.

alcaras · May 18, 2006, 02:32 AM // 02:32

I use this build to great effect in TA:
http://forums.subcreation.net/viewtopic.php?t=445

Liquidus · May 19, 2006, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Ok, I took out diversion because I found it wasn't being too useful for my mesmer build. Currently my skill bar is like this

Blackout
Energy Surge
Energy Burn
Shame
Shatter Enchantment
Drain Enchantment
Inspired Hex
Res Sig

Having two enchantments removals is nice because monks will usually have more than one of them. There's still no room for mind wrack, I'm thinking blackout would be useful when coordinating spikes in TA. I'm also thinking about replacing inspired with remove hex, for more hex removal on the team, although energy may become an issue.

holden · May 19, 2006, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liquidus

Ok, I took out diversion because I found it wasn't being too useful for my mesmer build. Currently my skill bar is like this

Blackout
Energy Surge
Energy Burn
Shame
Shatter Enchantment
Drain Enchantment
Inspired Hex
Res Sig

Having two enchantments removals is nice because monks will usually have more than one of them. There's still no room for mind wrack, I'm thinking blackout would be useful when coordinating spikes in TA. I'm also thinking about replacing inspired with remove hex, for more hex removal on the team, although energy may become an issue.

energy is already an issue, just not too big of one yet.

you need signet of weariness in there.

i really like that you have drain and shatter enchantments. that will be handy.

you dont have to use energy surge as your elite. i think it's a great skill but you can bring echo or or mantra of recovery or even change your secondary to ele and bring glyph of renewal and give yourself more options.

but for sure drop blackout for sig of weariness imo.

rii · May 19, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Dedicated signet Surger

Mesmer/Monk
Level: 20

Fast Casting: 9 (8+1)
Domination Magic: 16 (12+4)
Inspiration Magic: 11 (10+1)

Energy Surge [Elite] (Domination Magic)
Energy Burn (Domination Magic)
Signet of Weariness (Domination Magic)
Signet of Humility (Inspiration Magic)
Blackout (Domination Magic)
Mantra of Inscriptions (Inspiration Magic)
Leech Signet (Inspiration Magic)
Resurrection Signet ()

If you really want to energy burn then signet of weariness is pretty much required. Its a big addition to the other two skills, surge/burn. Signet of Humility lock is fun, and taking out a monks elite energy management passively denies a lot of energy. Blackout is a basic domination skill that should be everywhere, and leech signet provides a free interrupt (with a decent recharge under mantra), and of course passively drains energy by making them cast again.

Vindexus · May 19, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Surgers are overrated in TA. GoE + Gale + Blackout + Diversion and repeat is much better shutdown on a monk as positioning hardly matters at all in 4v4, so running up to Blackout isn't a big deal.

Van Goghs Ear · May 22, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

Surgers are overrated in TA. GoE + Gale + Blackout + Diversion and repeat is much better shutdown on a monk as positioning hardly matters at all in 4v4, so running up to Blackout isn't a big deal.

eh that's all fine and dandy if you are in to 2 min ++ matches, since I am into -1min matches, a no damage shutdown build is meh...In TA, since you're only 4 people, it's harder to get away with having an ally that does relatively no damage, you can but you matches will be drawn out much longer than necessary.

Sabe · May 23, 2006, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Nice but surely defence would be nice - distortion or summin.

I mean a warrior would just crush u specially a knockdown one.

remmeh · May 23, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

personally i tried a pure shutdown build in TA but i find the damage added on by wrack, surge, and burn really helps in terms of pressuring the monk. sure diversion will keep him from casting. but e-denial will give him something else to worry about, and mind wrack punishes focus swapping etc. I use a mix of edenial and skill denial for my shutdown mes.

Liquidus · May 31, 2006, 06:53 AM // 06:53

This is my current build for TA

Remove Hex
Energy Burn
Energy Surge
Shame
Shatter Enchantment
Drain Enchantment
Inspired Hex
Res Sig

So far I've only tested it extensively in RA and it seems to work pretty well against single monk teams. Sometimes I find myself with almost every skill recharging, but i guess I could use that time to remove hexes. The remove hex skills will probably be important in organized TA where hex removal support might be useful

There are so many useful mesmer skills, it seems to have the least agreed-upon optimal builds and skill sets.

edit: After seeing Sno mention how his team build sometimes runs with only 2 sigs, I am thinking if taking the sig off the mesmer might be a good idea considering the mesmer is a priority target and would use sig less. Although it's possible that to use a 2-sig require advanced skills that I don't have =)

SziP · May 31, 2006, 11:44 AM // 11:44

i like most of the builds here but u are missing one important skill.........Cry of Fustration. I myself dont go in the battle without that skill.

galkraft · Jun 04, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Actually Ether Feast can prove effective. Since Mind Wrack recharges so quickly, you will usually reapply it immediately after it takes effect (watch for the floating numbers or the disappearing purple triangle). If you move fast enough, especially on warriors and rangers, a quick Wrack > Feast combo will dish out a second spike after they just gained 1 or 2 energy. But naturally, you mostly want it because it heals!

galkraft · Jun 04, 2006, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Oh wait, you aren't using Wrack. D'oh! Nevermind.

Liquidus · Jun 06, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

@galkraft - Thanks for the suggestion, but I tried ether feast a long time ago and I found the heal it give was never enough to stop a warrior from killing me so I think I'll just rely on the monk for heals.

I was wondering, in terms of effectiveness, how does a edenial mesmer compare to a diversion spammer in TA? With mantra of recovery, constant diversion could be pretty useful on boon prot, touch rangers, blood necros, many classes. Any ideas?

sno · Jun 06, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liquidus

I was wondering, in terms of effectiveness, how does a edenial mesmer compare to a diversion spammer in TA? With mantra of recovery, constant diversion could be pretty useful on boon prot, touch rangers, blood necros, many classes. Any ideas?

Recovery dom running diversion can be extremely effective against even the best monks. Edenial is fairly easy to get around via simple focus swapping, and doesn't provide permanant shutdown. With Recovery, you can spam lots of nice skills, like shatter enchant (or drain, i usually run both,) an interupt (I like power return for the 3.5s recharge, but power spike is nice too,) or shame for energy management.

remmeh · Jun 06, 2006, 07:57 PM // 19:57

especially now that with decent fast casting you can keep up Recovery most of the time. skill denial is often more effective than energy denial which can be shrugged off.

Liquidus · Jun 07, 2006, 04:24 PM // 16:24

This is my first try at a diversion spammer build, I got most of the ideas from another forum. Any suggestions? Can someone show me how the stat points are put out?

Diversion
Shame
Blackout
Shatter Enchantment
Drain Enchantment
Power drain
Mantra of Recovery
Res Sig/ Remove Hex

audioaxes · Jun 07, 2006, 06:04 PM // 18:04

well on the downside of diversion spammer is that you are not pulling in dps for the team